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If you save up all your edge points, you can definitely take this edge twice for a total of thief points enough to be a full poisoner AND full trapper with one point left over. Human: No experience penalty. Permanent flight makes you the best race to take on and utterly infuriate other thieves as you never have to worry about cheap shot which is the biggest money skill for thieves interested in sealing kills. Gnomes have lots of trains which translates to HP bonuses just like shifters. They tend to be the most convenient ones to get into also. Klaak: While I have modified this Thief Guide extensively, my modifications are not comprehensive. Only take this if you have a damn good reason.

This is intended as a general guide to playing a thief and how obtaining skills works. You do not need to meet a certain percentage, though, to unlock the next skill in the path, as long as you spend at least one practice session on the skill. The auto-sneak is very nice and works while fleeing, as good or better than quiet movement in these instances blackjack skill scroll seal d-elf thieves have faerie fire, which is useful in rare situations or with certain racial edges.

To be fair, newbies get owned as anything anyway and usually refuse advice on what to play unless they ask the vague yet infamous gift shop meadows prairie is the best X?

If you think you can finagle a way through these difficulties, or one of the path offers interesting alternatives to mage classes or warrior specs or assassins, then go ahead. They learn extremely fast, which is very VERY nice considering you're going to have it rough ranking past 35 unless you made some very nice friends.

All other paths have a prerequisite of the previous skill in the path, before you can learn the next skill in the path. I have not said anything about the new trapper skills. Felar: The first of the black-sheep thief races.

How a player goes about this is up to the player, what they are experimenting with, what gear they are blackjack skill scroll seal, what preps they have on hand and what scrolls they plan to use.

Thieves are a unique blackjack skill scroll seal. Svirfnebli and gnomes are probably very good options for experienced players who know some scrolls they want to try out, but new players are probably still going to get owned as them.

They have no vulns, and as far as thieves go have middle-of-the-road HP. Meeko-- Confirmed untrue. They also have access to higher level foes earlier, the only perk to this being access to stealing their inventory earlier.

You'll know you have 'thief points' when the guildmaster either offers to teach you a skill 'in a few titles' or offers to teach you the next skill in their given path right now. Level Gentle Walk Level Advanced Picklock Level Plant Level Blackjack skill scroll seal Level Nimble Fingers Level Envenom Level Bag of Tricks Level 1: Scrolls

Svirfnebli may well be worth the blunt vuln because you can become near unbashable which is also a bad thing if you plan on using blackjack or poisons with any frequency and see both invis and hidden which essentially makes you a duergar AP with a brand new skill set and nice inherents such as stoneskin. According to an Imm, it's entirely conceivable to take this edge three times, but so far, no one has ever done it. Svirfnebli also take a 2 point hit to max intelligence but the gnomes are as good as arials for skill spam practice. Every 5 levels, the game gives you 'thief points'. For example, in order to learn Deft Touch from the Pickpocket path, you must first learn Plant, then Discerning Gaze, then eye of Avarice, and then you can learn Deft Touch. And this doesn't always fall under the use of hide, there are other ways to accomplish this even against assassins and duergar. Some guilds have payment requirements to get into. This makes is the most useful poison against NPCs for leveling purposes. I have not and probably never will taken the time to re-order skills and put them all in their proper groupings, etc I will, however, put a comprehensive list of thief skills, in order by level in their appropriate paths with point cost included just before the discussion of skills begins. And maybe disarm for certain mobs that need to lose their weapon like Calandryl or the silver spirits. Arial advantages and stats are neck and neck with human for the best thief, and if there is any difficulty in choosing between the two, the permanent flight probably seals it unless you are planning around getting and keeping spike-toed boots the majority of your life. Quiet movement is a respectable substitute for double back, and while players generally shouldn't be using them anyway, negate chase triggers. For one, the thief only tanks half-decently to 30 and only if you wear decent amounts of HP gear and have 23 dex. You cannot use spike-toed boots, certain headgear and to a lesser extent, most robes, but the trade-off is that the arial gear you would get probably has the stats you would be using in those slots anyway. Likely the route that makes the most sense for this is worshipping Qaledus or to a lesser extent, Trabryn or Jullias who are also both thieves by profession but Jullias is near impossible to find and harder to get his attention than Drokalanatym or Zulghinlour or Valguarnera or a dormant imm, and with good reason. Whether you're griefing, stealing rare items for yourself, that you may still not be able to make as much use of as the original owner, or attempting to kill someone, your best advantage is that of surprise. Don't worry, you can still practice past level 15, you just need a new hometown probably or have to get used to walking as far as an orc does every time. This is what I recommend for perfecting Warning Skill along the Pickpocket path. I have avoided commenting on anything that I don't have extensive personal experience with like trappers and many things about thugs , as well as things just just didn't seem to me like they needed any additions. Klaak: This is only partly true, depending on what combination of thief path and general thief skills you choose. Humans must wear glowing items to substitute infravision, and given how big gear is to a thief this can be problematic at times while you sacrifice gear slots for useless glowing items at low levels. Klaak: General Thief skills have no prerequisite skill. Their only perk is being able to be moderately dangerous using a spear, which many classes learn anyway and those that don't probably aren't worried about your damage output because of your shit strength. Felar thieves are nerfed in every way from the low int to the inability to dual wield. This gives you a total of thief points. However, it's the most costly thief edge, the edge point cost increases each time you take it, has a prerequisite of 2k Imm XP, and must be at least level 42 or 43 not sure which. You have nasty fire and drowning vulns for no real advantage, and can't use spike-toed boots either. Also, Weapon Nick with Neurological Poison gives poisoner thieves a small boost up in leveling usefulness, since Neurological poison often gives a Slow effect. Taking these races is purely a matter of preference and there's a reason you don't see that many, most roles that these would make sense for Human is just better. Lumikant: I've heard IC from kingpins that they've gotten bonus thief points for becoming kingpin. Rumors persist of extra thief points being given as a reward, in a similar fashion to shifter quest forms, warrior legacies on non-warriors and various imm-gifted edges. Ensure that your Int is about a 17 or lower, and spend only one practice session on Deft Touch as well as basic Steal to ensure abundant failures when practicing steal, and abundant opportunities for Warning Skill to fire. Duergar: The second of the black-sheep thief races. The only reason to use this race is if you're used to using it for warriors and AP's, in which case you won't mind the shit skill percentages or extra days of spam practice. One final note before launching into this, if you're doing this to decide what class to play that would be interesting, and leveling means anything at all to you, for god sakes don't pick this class unless you know you can make some friends who will take you over other people. Thugs are the exception to all this, they can be used as mini axe specs as a 3rd in leveling groups, with third attack and circle stab and some massive damroll. There is also a chance you may not have any interest in going past 40 if you only took a single thief path and this is your first, second or third thief, or you're just going to do some levelsitting. The initial version of this guide was written in according to the dates at the bottom, and thieves have seen if memory serves at least two revamps since that time. Kingpin of Galadon receives shopkeeps favors, cityties, and guild protection. You can still check other guilds with other paths to see if you have any thief points at all if you're curious. If you get no such offer at all, you don't have enough thief points to learn the skill the guildmaster would offer you. Most of my additions to this guide have been to correct inaccuracies, some of which were caused by the revamps, and others that were not. It is not a definitive guide, and is free to be changed by more experienced players. You still need to be a minimum title to learn each skill regardless of how many thief points you have. For another, unless you're a thug, your only source of damage is dual wield and enhanced damage And circle stab at 15 and for certain paths precision strike at 24 turns circle stab into a poor man's feint with extra bonuses. The drowning vuln should never become an issue unless you choose to start a fight where the opponent has access to these attacks. Closer to hero you pretty much become the most useless character for leveling groups, and you aren't that great to begin with slightly above lowbie mages who can't tank. No thief points for becoming Kingpin or any other guild leader. Several PBFs have Imm comments that mention awarding thief points. You will get thief points at the same levels you'll get a train up to level There is no special exception for Klaak: With thief revamp, you earn 2 thief points every single level through At 42 you earn 18, and no more after that. In general though, you need to have a damn good reason or really hate skill spam to take these races over human as these thieves are as fragile as mages. It hasn't been confirmed with any certainty except mentioned by two or three thief players but it's entirely within the realm of possibility the imms will grant you thief points for exceptional RP. Also, because of some skills being moved around, like many trapper skills being moved to General Skills, I've pretty much just added my comments to things already written for the purpose of correction. No thief points. Many thieves level sit at 35 even today and prior to today they had no reason to pass that level because their last skill came at 30 or so because heroing is an exercise in finding the right two man group that a can tank b can do damage without your help and c may end up taking you either because you're their friend or they have no other choice. Taking the edge 'Devious Veratility' will give you an extra 10 thief points, and it can be taken multiple times. So If you had an Int of 14, and spent one practice session on Plant after studying it, then Discerning Gaze would become available to you, as long as you also meet the level requirement and spend the thief points for it. But don't be surprise if you delete before hero. Distention removes this advantage, as it always does, after a decent period of time, but the HP differential between a level 30 human thief and even most giant warriors is huge, enough for backstab to end a fight before it starts. That's not enough to get you into groups up toward hero unless you're decked out in gear that your allies won't simply kill you for. The dex and int are godly, and the lightning vuln, like the drowning vuln, only comes into play if you fight duergar anti-paladins or people wielding electric weapons. Arial: Excellent choice for a thief. Thieves don't use staffs either, which along with spears are the only reason to play felar anything.